Tim Russert vs Social Security

Many people . . . have tried to call Russert's attention to the actual numbers on Social Security; he obviously does not care. He wants to cut the program and he will not let the evidence stand in his way. And, he has absolutely no hesitation about deliberately misrepresenting the facts on national television to advance his agenda.

Tim Russert, if family is reading may he rest in peace, was a tool of Wall Street and Jack Welch and therefore a dedicated enemy of all Americans who aren't rich or yuppie. There are any number of ways to establish that fact, but I'll handle his long and largely successful scare campaign aimed at killing or drastically cutting back Social Security while funneling mountains of taxpayer money to our nation's already very obscenely wealthy investor class. First up is Dean Baker, who supplied the quote above:

Tim Russert Bashes Social Security, Yet Again
Dean Baker, September 4, 2006

If Social Security was a private corporation, Tim Russert would be unemployed and NBC would be out of business. (When you misrepresent the financial state of a private business in the way that Russert misrepresents the financial state of Social Security, you get sued for libel.)

Note how the fact that Social Security, Medicare, and everything else that fits under "entitlements" becomes a Social Security problem, as Russert points out that entitlements account for 52 percent of the budget, approaching 70 percent. (I believe that these percentages exclude interest payments, but it's not clear where Russert is getting these numbers.) Note that Mr. Russert ignores the fact that Social Security is funded by a designated tax that will keep the program fully funded until 2046, according to the most recent projections of the Congressional Budget Office.

Many people, including me, have tried to call Russert's attention to the actual numbers on Social Security; he obviously does not care. He wants to cut the program and he will not let the evidence stand in his way. And, he has absolutely no hesitation about deliberately misrepresenting the facts on national television to advance his agenda.

More recently, here's lefty economist Tim Weisbrot, who is reacting to an appearance by (the apparently successfully misinformed) Barack Obama on Russert's Meet the Press last November (emphasis added):

The fact that a major Democratic presidential candidate (Obama) could attack the front-runner in 2007, for not proposing a solution to a problem that is so relatively small and uncertain and nearly four decades away, is testimony to the power and durability of well-financed right-wing propaganda -- especially when there is no matching effort on the other side. The right spent more than two decades, and millions of dollars, discrediting Social Security with nothing more than verbal and accounting tricks - they never even bothered to make their own projections to compete with Social Security's Trustees. Some of the money that altered public opinion came straight from Wall Street financial firms who stood to make a fortune from privatization.

These efforts should be regarded as one of the most successful disinformation campaigns in modern history. These people managed to convince tens of millions of Americans that they are never going to see their Social Security benefits, an event about as probable as the United States disappearing from the political map.

Surely the leading voice of that right-wing disinformation campaign was Tim Russert. What an attack that has been, on the millions of less well-off Americans who will be forced to rely on what Jack Welch, NBC and Wall Street decide to leave us of Social Security. (Unless we stay vigilant and fight back!)

At about the same time as Weisbrot, Paul Krugman was also attacking Russert for his Social Security b.s. The NY Times column quote below is taken second-hand from the Daily Howler, which has hammered Russert's anti-Social Security campaign for a very long time. The concluding comment is the Howler's:

KRUGMAN (11/16/07): Inside the Beltway, doomsaying about Social Security--declaring that the program as we know it can't survive the onslaught of retiring baby boomers--is regarded as a sort of badge of seriousness, a way of showing how statesmanlike and tough-minded you are.

Consider, for example, this exchange about Social Security between Chris Matthews of MSNBC and Tim Russert of NBC, on a recent edition of Mr. Matthews's program "Hardball."

Russert: "Everyone knows Social Security, as it's constructed, is not going to be in the same place it's going to be for the next generation, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives."

Matthews: "It's a bad Ponzi scheme, at this point."

Russert: "Yes."

But the "everyone" who knows that Social Security is doomed doesn't include anyone who actually understands the numbers.

More below from the venerable Daily Howler `Russert vs. Social Security' vault. The first outtake is long because you have to note how Russert disappears what establishment pillar Alan Greenspan had just told him three days earlier (much of Howler's italics removed):

9/28/07:

How inept is our multimillionaire press corps? Let's start with Russert's introduction of this topic at Wednesday's debate:

RUSSERT (9/26/07): And we're back at Dartmouth College talking to the Democrats. I want to talk about Social Security and Medicare.

The chairman of the Federal Reserve, the head of the Government Accountability Office, have both said that the number of people in America on Social Security and Medicare is going to double in the next 20 years--there are now 40 million; it's going to go to 80 million--and that if nothing is done, we'll have to cut benefits in half or double the taxes. That is their testimony.

Senator Biden, in order to prevent that, would you be willing to consider certain steps? For example, back in 1983, Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill, Patrick Moynihan and Bob Dole got together and changed the retirement age. It's going to be going up to 67 in a gradual increase.

Right now, you pay tax for Social Security on your first $97,500 worth of income. Why not tax the entire income of every American? And if you do that, you'll guarantee the solvency of Social Security farther than the eye can see.

"I want to talk about Social Security and Medicare," Russert said at the start of this segment. And then, just like that, for whatever reason, he switched his field to a (largely bungled) discussion of Social Security only. The absurdity of this approach should be obvious; everyone agrees that the real problem with future entitlements concerns the costs of Medicare, not of Social Security. Indeed, the former head of the federal reserve had said this to Russert just three days before the self-impressed burgher led Wednesday evening's debate. On Sunday morning's Meet the Press, Alan Greenspan laid out the shape of the entitlement problem, as even the Greenspans now limn it:

RUSSERT (9/23/07): Do you believe either political party has stepped up to the crisis we face with Social Security and Medicare in the coming years?

GREENSPAN: I do not.

RUSSERT: How big a crisis will that be?

GREENSPAN: Social Security is not a big crisis. We are approximately 2 percent points of payroll short over the very long run. It's a significant closing of the gap, but it's doable, and doable in any number of ways.

Medicare is a wholly different issue... We're going to double the size of the retired population, and by all of the analysis I go through in the book, it's very evident to me that we are not able to actually deliver on the Medicare we are promising . . .

The problem lies with Medicare, Greenspan said, voicing an utterly standard analysis. But for whatever reason, Russert quickly turned Wednesday's segment into a discussion of Social Security. He blathered ahead with his typically useless data about the number of future recipients--and about the typical age of death back in the mid-1930s. None of these facts are even slightly relevant to a real discussion of Social Security, as pundits have made clear many times, especially during 2005, when Bush's privatization plan hit the deck. (Duh. These useless facts are already part of the future funding formulas!)

Then there was Russert during President Bush's '05 Social Security destruction campaign, which mainstream Democrats and their kept bloggers successfully side-tracked. Here are three Howler excerpts on Russert:

1/19/05:

How did Russert approach Rahm [Emmanuel] on Social Security? The fabled attack-dog was instantly yapping. Here was his opening question:

RUSSERT (1/16/05): Let me turn to Social Security and put a quote up on the board."...the looming fiscal crisis in Social Security. ...If nothing is done by 2029, there will be a deficit in Social Security trust fund, which will either require...a huge tax increase in the payroll tax, or just about a 25 percent cut in Social Security benefits."Do you agree with that?

Of course, Russert's question didn't make too much sense. No one agrees with the quoted statement, because the statement's use of the year 2029 identifies it as a blast from the past, when SS trustees were citing that year as the year when the system's trust fund would expire. In fact, this quotation came from a speech by Bill Clinton on February 9, 1998. So why was Russert quoting the speech? Because today, most Dems say (correctly, in our view) that there isn't a "looming crisis" in Social Security. Russert wanted to play "gotcha" with Rahm, catching him in a contradiction with something his former boss said.

To clarify the above, Media Matters writes, in More Social Security misinformation on Meet the Press:

Clinton's claim that "there will be a deficit in Social Security trust fund" by 2029 accurately reflected the estimate of the 1997 report of the Board of Trustees of the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance and Disability Insurance Trust Funds (OASDI). But, as the Board of Trustees noted in its 2004 report: "Assumptions are reexamined each year in light of recent experience and new information. This careful review and updating of the assumptions on an annual basis helps ensure that they provide the Trustees' best estimate of future possibilities." According to the 2004 report, the Social Security trust fund will be able to fully pay promised benefits until 2042*. The estimated date is 2052, according to a June 2004 report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

1/10/05:

In the mainstream press corps, conservative spin has long driven the SS debate, and yesterday's Meet the Press proved no exception. Indeed, Tim Russert raised the SS question . . . And guess what! Russert recited the spin-driven speech he always recites when he tackles SS. He listed gloomy, irrelevant facts taken straight from the pseudo-con spin shop:

RUSSERT (1/9/05):Albert Hunt and Katty, the situation is, when Social Security began, there were 16 workers for every retiree. There are soon to be two workers for every retiree. We have 40 million people on Social Security now.

When the baby boomers retire, there'll be 80 million. Roosevelt said eligibility 65, which was genius, because if you made it to 65, you were on Social Security for a month or two and that was it. Life expectancy's now 78, 79, 80 years old, so you have twice as many people on the program for fifteen years. The president says that's a crisis. Democrats say it's not a crisis, we'll find a way to grow our way out of this and make some changes that would tweak the system.

Who's right?

As usual, Russert recited gloomy facts which made SS sound unsustainable. The hardest-right spinner could hardly do better. Indeed, Russert has only made one concession on this topic over the years. He used to say there were forty-two workers for every retiree back when Social Security began (see THE DAILY HOWLER, 12/8/04). Now he offers a different irrelevant fact. It was sixteen to one, he now tells us.

Yes, Russert's gloomy, irrelevant facts come straight from a pseudo-con spin-shop.

12/8/04:

Why do American citizens think there's a "looming crisis" in Social Security? One answer is fairly obvious--big press honchos constantly say so. Consider Sunday's Meet the Press, for example. Senator Harry Reid dared to say that he opposed Soc Sec private accounts. In reply, Tim Russert put it on cruise control, serving up the scary speech he has delivered ten thousand times in the past:

RUSSERT (12/5/04): But, Senator, there are now forty million people on Social Security. In the next twenty years, there's going to be eighty million. Life expectancy used to be 65 years old. It's approaching 80. If you have twice as many people on these programs for fifteen years, you've got to restructure them in some way, shape, or form. What is your solution?

REID: Tim--

RUSSERT: What is your alternative?

Poor Harry! The solon got to say one word--"Tim"--before the humble son of Buffalo challenged him boldly again.

Russert delivers this ominous speech the way other life-forms take air. He'll interject his (selective) facts into almost any discussion.

Deforming, cutting and/or killing Social Security was a long-term campaign for Russert, going back at least to early 2000:

1/17/00 [Daily Howler is discussing the 1/6/00 GOP presidential candidates forum]:

Russert's final word: Most striking by far in this forum was Russert's treatment of Social Security. The topic arose 30 minutes along in a question to McCain. . . . Predictably, Russert asked Bush to critique McCain's answer, and Bauer forced his way in for a comment. But, though Keyes and Forbes were trying to speak, Russert held up his hand, talked over the top of them, and said this before starting the forum's next segment:

RUSSERT: We've all agreed the candidates will get a chance to question one another. Just for the record, Mr. Bauer, if nothing is done, benefits must be reduced by a third or the taxes doubled by the year 2035. More to come, more to come.

This is Russert's view of the facts, but it's surely not the view of several candidates. The idea that Russert should establish "the record" on this seminal issue provided the debate's most remarkable moment. Our analysts cheered when Keyes finally said, "I begin to wonder when Mr. Russert will declare his candidacy." But Russert's notion--that candidates should be silenced so journalists can speak--was all too expressive of moderator outlook in the dispiriting succession of performances by moderators we have seen since these forums began.

On Social Security, Russert leaves an anti-populist, anti-journalistic legacy.



Display:


Man -- you maybe right but (2.00 / 3)

really your timing is not. Come on - we can be above such things. especially given he just passed away...

are we all always right about everything?  do only our mistakes define our lives? I think not...


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:29:10 PM EST

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (2.00 / 3)

There will be no other time, really, attention spans and news cycles being what they are. And Social Security, in my opinion, is the issue in U.S. politics right now, for those who own the mainstream media and donate the lion's share of money to Presidential campaigns.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:35:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (2.00 / 3)

No other time for what? Posting a diary on MyDD? What does posting a diary now or a month from now have to do with "news cycles," exactly?

You're hardly bringing any attention to this than you would be posting it later - in fact your poor timing is distracting from whatever message you might be trying to convey. Please delete this diary.


by animated on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (1.66 / 3)

I think disagree. Posting this diary now brings maximum attention to Russert's disinformation campaign against Social Security.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:54:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (2.00 / 1)

If Soc. Security is truly "the issue in U.S. politics right now" as you claim, why not post an article just about it, instead of latching on to a story about a man dying?  

The merits of your argument are at least debatable, but your tactic to draw attention is unfortunately quite crass.  If an unquestionably bad man dies you can and should denounce his life straight away, but Tim Russert was not, and we should show respect by not flinging shit in his grave before it's filled.


by semiquaver on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:20:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Men with good intentions (1.00 / 0)

can do bad things. That is how most bad things are accomplished.

There's no such thing as "an unquestionably bad man."


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:32:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (none / 0)

I'm criticizing his disinformation campaign against Social Security; keep it real: I'm not 'flinging shit in his grave'. Your problem seems to be an unwritten book of etiquette your flinging at me. Tell the truth, are you actually offended, or do you just think it's politically correct to pretend to be offended. For nearly all of us, we are just talking about a ghostly presence on our TV screens, after all. I gave more than fair warning and expressed condolences to family members at the beginning of the diary.

And meanwhile, the false 'admirable' Tim Russert is diligently being constructed by the corporate media.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:56:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (none / 0)

Again, your premise seems to be that he is beyond redemption because of his apparent opinion on one policy.  That is not enough to justify the disrespect you've evinced, which should be saved for the worst type of person.


by semiquaver on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:01:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please not the qualifying phrase in my conclusion: (2.00 / 1)

"On Social Security, Russert leaves an anti-populist, anti-journalistic legacy." "On Social Security" is a limited condemnation (where do you get "your premise seems to be that he is beyond redemption"?), but richly deserved. And Social Security is a very live issue going forward into the fall and 2009.

Where you get my 'disrespect' is again, something you would have to explain rather than nakedly assert. And those 'everybody knows' kinds of explanations don't really cut it. If I am disrespecting Russert, where in the article do I show that to you? I disagree with his politics and his biased journalism, I admit. Is unadorned political disagreement now assumed to be 'disrespect'?


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:10:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

On the day after someone has died, yes. (none / 0)


by semiquaver on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:13:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (2.00 / 1)

But how is russert and an opinion of a recently passed away journalist going to make a difference though. I mean all you have achieved is folks being blind to the message and angry at the messenger.

Can you see my point?... if you wanted to drive attention to your message on SS . You achieved the opposite? And sadly I really think you maligned a decent man. One's opinion on SS does not define the man. You saw yesterday that every major news channel/commentator / opinion journalist was doing hours of tributes to him, regardless of what side of politics they chose in this election.

Russert in his death managed to get Bill O and Keith O on the same page for once...now that's a testament to the man


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (2.00 / 2)

Why is it politically correct now to emit vast reams of type on what an admirable guy Russert, when that objectively was not the case? The Social Security disinformation campaign, and Russert was the principal voice of that, is far more important than the false umbrage of people who had no relationship at all with Russert other than as a consumer. And I stated my condolences to his family at the very outset of the article.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:57:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (none / 0)

Your condolences are meaningless if after giving them you immediately go on to smear the man.

Even if his opinion on the matter combined with his prominent place in the media led to his becoming a "principal voice" of a "disinformation campaign", how does that "objectively" make him not an admirable guy?  Was he trying to hurt people by calling attention to what he believed to be a very important issue?


by semiquaver on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:27:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (none / 0)

You fail to communicate when you use language so loosely, in direct contradiction to what words mean in the dictionary. The article is an evidence-rich, quoting sources of great authority, on Tim Russert's anti-Social-Security disinformation campaign. Explain to me what you understand the word 'smear' means.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:59:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (none / 0)

I would say that a smear is an attack made in bad faith, and that yours qualifies, since your beef is only tangentially related to Russert, and you used the publicity around his death to draw eyeballs to your pet cause.

The article is an evidence-rich, quoting sources of great authority, on Tim Russert's anti-Social-Security disinformation campaign
Your sources show that he has expressed his opinion about the issue, not that he is deeply involved in a conspiracy to misinform the public as you appear to claim.


by semiquaver on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:10:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (none / 0)

WordNet:

smear
noun

1. slanderous defamation

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/s mear

Here's my problem with Russert on Social Security, my 'pet cause':

Many people . . . have tried to call Russert's attention to the actual numbers on Social Security; he obviously does not care. He wants to cut the program and he will not let the evidence stand in his way. And, he has absolutely no hesitation about deliberately misrepresenting the facts on national television to advance his agenda.

And this is not a problem simply with Russert, but with the state of 'journalism' in this country that allows his blatant disinformation campaign to go largely unchallenged and (therefore) now for Russert to be remembered as if he were God's gift to the nation. Social Security benefits are inadequate already, and cutting them will create death and severe hardship; that's on Tim Russert, his network, and the people who look the other way.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 07:19:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (2.00 / 1)

Why is telling the truth considered a smear? Serious question.


by cuppajoe on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Man -- you maybe right but (none / 0)

stomping on a man a bare day after his death is disgusting and something we should all be above.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:47:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (2.00 / 1)

You may be right, but I can't believe it's the best time to bash the policies of the newly departed.


by ProgressiveDL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:29:24 PM EST

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (1.00 / 4)

Please fuck off and delete this piece of shit.  He's not even buried yet you ghoulish asshole.


by reconad on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:29:31 PM EST

Inappropriate language (1.50 / 2)

Come on.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:33:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inappropriate language (none / 0)

The guy died yesterday.  You want inappropriate?

Read the damned diary.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:11:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you happy about Iraq? (1.50 / 2)

Then you should know part of the reason we're there is the MSM cheerleaders who failed to adequately question why we were moving in.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:13:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Are you happy about Iraq? (none / 0)

Say what you will about the MSM, but they'd never support or excuse dancing on the graves of the recently deceased.  

This isn't about Iraq.  The fact that Russert was part of the media doesn't mean that upon his death he must atone for all its crimes.


by semiquaver on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:30:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Read Richard Nixon's obit (1.00 / 1)

and read about freedom of the press.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:33:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read Richard Nixon's obit (none / 0)

So Nixon == Russert in your eyes?  I won't even bother to challenge that assertion.  

Just because the press has freedom doesn't mean that it shouldn't show respect.  If you care about the issues espoused in this diary, propagate them on their own merits, not on the coattails of a dead man who earned the respect of a lot more people than Dick Nixon.


by semiquaver on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:43:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Read Blinded by the Right (1.00 / 0)

by David Brock.

Do you remember the rush to go into war with Iraq?


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:59:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inappropriate language (1.00 / 1)

Come on yourself.  The diarist is an asshole and deserves to be called on the carpet.


by reconad on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:49:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (2.00 / 2)

Way too soon.

Delete this if you have any dignity.


Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.
by Massadonious on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:30:45 PM EST

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (2.00 / 2)

Delete


by animated on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:31:37 PM EST

Generation soft wants an honesty-free society (1.50 / 4)

so they don't want you to print facts that are unpleasant.

They demand you delete this diary.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:34:01 PM EST

The man just FUCKING DIED YESTERDAY. (none / 0)


Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.
by Massadonious on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:36:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Generation soft wants an honesty-free society (1.50 / 2)

I agree, this is about censorship not Russert's family's feelings. In the mind-bogglingly unlikely  event any of them were reading, surely after I wrote "may he rest in peace" at the very start of the diary they could've stopped reading.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Generation soft wants an honesty-free society (2.00 / 1)

So you can say or write whatever you like after using the phrase "May he rest in peace"?

Is your father dead?  Well, may he rest in peace, he was a closest skullfucker.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:12:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Generation soft wants an honesty-free society (none / 0)

Whoops, "closest" should have been "closet".


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:16:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Generation soft wants an honesty-free society (2.00 / 1)

I didn't write 'anything I want' after writing "may he rest in peace." I wrote evidence-backed criticism of Russert's politics.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:17:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Generation soft wants an honesty-free society (2.00 / 1)

The fact that you think this is acceptable is pathetic.

You are no better than those idiots who go to the funerals of soldiers to protest if you think this is acceptable.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:50:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (none / 0)

That comment by catfish2 is frikking hilarious!

Elevates the concept of "never a missed opportunity" to ludicrous new levels of ridiculousness.

Bravo, catfish2. My head is still shaking!


by xdem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:48:50 PM EST

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (none / 0)

This is the one I was referring to, for clarity:

Obama supporters don't like SocialSecurity
so this will not bother them at all.


by xdem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:03:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did any of you know Russert personally? (2.00 / 2)

We jokingly refer to him as one of our "friends in the box."

But I doubt any of you knew him. He died, and for his family and friends, that is sad.

But he held an enormous amount of influence over the Washington literati and was one of the respected journalists who failed to question Bush, failed to question Cheney, failed to question the rush to war.

He was just as bad, if not worse, than Judith Miller (use Google to look her up if you don't recognize the name.)


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:50:16 PM EST

Re: Did any of you know Russert personally? (none / 0)

He

Just

Died

Yesterday

I don't give a shit what he did, or what you think about him.

But at least have enough respect not to tarnish the man a day after he died. If he's as bad as you claim, this diary will still be relevant many, many months from now.


Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.
by Massadonious on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:53:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You were not his friend (1.00 / 1)

Stop censoring.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:55:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, I wasn't. (2.00 / 1)

This isn't about censoring, this is about having a little self respect and dignity.

If this was O'Reilly or Hannity, or someone I despised, I still wouldn't pick the day after they died to start talking about how wrong they were.

This is disrespectful. Period.


Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.
by Massadonious on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Official Russert 'truth' is being established now (1.33 / 3)

This diary is just as respectful as the diaries that contend Russert was an admirable, universally admired character. They aren't limiting themselves to how he behaved toward his family and pets, they're lauding him as a great journalist. He very much was not, and I'm resisting the lie.

If the 'official truth' liars shut up, I will too.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:09:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Official Russert 'truth' is being established (none / 0)

He very much was not

This is your opinion. This diary doesn't prove that.

I can easily say O'Reilly is a terrible journalist, but there are many that will disagree.

And, in the case of Tim Russert, he was at least respected as much. Most of the comments I've seen from Republicans on their various networks seem to think so.


Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.
by Massadonious on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Official Russert 'truth' is being established (none / 0)

Yes, it's my opinion, and I've provided plentiful evidence, using only his Social Security disinformation efforts.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 07:24:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Official Russert 'truth' is being established (none / 0)

I wonder what people will be saying about you the day after...


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:52:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Journalism 101: Obits should tell the truth (2.00 / 1)

Read Richard Nixon's obituaries. News clippings of obituaries set the record.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Journalism 101: Obits should tell the truth (none / 0)

And?

Is this supposed to mean something?

This isn't an obituary. This is a direct attack on his character. Which you are free to make, but NOT ON THE DAY AFTER THE GUY JUST FUCKING DIED!!

It's clear you don't understand this, or have any shred of self respect, so I will stop engaging you.

If you are a religous man, I would hope that God will forgive you for this.


Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.
by Massadonious on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:01:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You were not his friend (none / 0)

Censorship is done usually by the government, but always by someone with authority.  Accusing another poster of censorship for strongly disagreeing with you and saying that you should shut up out of respect, is frankly laughable.  If you were at the funeral of someone I knew loudly criticizing their policies, would it be censorship when I punched you in the face?


by semiquaver on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:37:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (2.00 / 3)

I don't have a problem with your timing. Tim Russert was a very public man, how he is remembered with have a political impact. Yesterday was the time for hagiography, now we should face Tim Russert's political legacy. Democrats especially need to point out the pernicious aspects of what he did and what he represented, lest his ideas take on his new halo for another generation of reporters.


by souvarine on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:53:30 PM EST

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (2.00 / 1)

Thank you. One might hope that at least Air America would speak honestly rather than hagiographically about Russert. But no, not at all. Is Air America (officially or unofficially) part of the NBC family now?


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:11:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've given up on them (2.00 / 2)

too bad I would think at least they would remember Russert's complicity in getting us into Iraq (or failing to question the idea of Iraq.)


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:12:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (none / 0)

When you think about the rationale for criticizing Tim Russert in a diary for whatever contrived reason you want to pick - Social Security in this case...

The only possible conclusion is that the diarist is seeking the most inflammatory possible package for maximum trollish impact.

And from that perverse point of departure, you have to say it worked pretty well. And until we all - myself most especially - learn to avoid such manipulation by ignoring them - the trolls will be encouraged to keep it up.

My bottom line take-away from this:

1. We're stupid.
2. They suck.


by xdem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:13:35 PM EST

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (2.00 / 1)

You obviously haven't read the diary if you think the case against Russert is contrived. Read it and get back to me, Social Security is incredibly important, in fact more important than the contrived 'hurt' feelings or hurt senses of propriety of people who didn't know Russert.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:21:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (1.00 / 1)

This diary is not intended to be about Tim Russert or Social Security. That is merely the vehicle to carry the anti-Obama troll message.

It's a Trojan Horse Diary.


by xdem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:57:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (1.00 / 1)

Sorry for the spelling error:

Trollgen Horse Diary.


by xdem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:58:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (none / 0)

You know, I'll actually engage you on this one.

He was a good man with whom I disagreed on an issue.  Boo fucking hoo.  He was a good newsman, a good father, and a good American.

I should be so lucky to lead a life like his.  He worked for Moynihan for Christ's sake.  


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:15:44 PM EST

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (2.00 / 2)

My priorities are just different than yours: I care a lot about Social Security not being destroyed.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:19:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (none / 0)

Your campaign to draw attention to your issue by pissing everyone off and being incredibly callous and disrespectful is working brilliantly.  You must care very much about Social Security.


by semiquaver on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:39:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (2.00 / 2)

Yes, I do. Tim Russert, on Social Security, was an enemy of nearly all the people. Compare that to the way the establishment media, including Air America, is lauding him now.

And learn what progressives are up against going forward.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:12:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (1.00 / 1)

You care a lot about being an insensitive jerk too apparently.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (none / 0)

and Tweety worked for Tip O'Neill.

Their problem is that now they work for Jack Welch, and Welch's policies at NBC have been pernicious for journalism at that network.

http://www.makethemaccountable.com/cover up/Part_04.htm

Welch's stated policy is that NBC (and MSNBC) have one goal, to increase the bottom line of General Electric.

If you're not too grieved at Mr. Russert's untimely death, read the article.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:49:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wrong time for this (none / 0)

YOu may be 100% right but pissing on someone's grave before they are in it is something you just don't do absent the rarest of rarest of circumstances.

If there is ever a circumstance to do that, it better be something like 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of the world's most evil people.  Jerry Falwell perhaps.  Pat Robertson perhaps.  But Russert?  You are out of line in your timing.


by HillsMyGirl on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:47:03 PM EST

Very important this kind of 'journalism' stop: (2.00 / 1)

"Many people . . . have tried to call Russert's attention to the actual numbers on Social Security; he obviously does not care. He wants to cut the program and he will not let the evidence stand in his way. And, he has absolutely no hesitation about deliberately misrepresenting the facts on national television to advance his agenda."


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:22:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (none / 0)

The guy is dead. This is the WORST taste I've ever seen. What is the fucking difference what he thought of social security?


by NY Writer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:59:48 PM EST

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (2.00 / 1)

Because he was able to set a huge chunk of the national agenda in this Presidential campaign by bringing back to life the fake Social Security 'crisis'. An issue that we Democrats thought was over when we decisively defeated Bush's 2005 effort to deform SS.

Russert's virtually untouchable superman media standing -- dramatically enhanced in the last 24 hours -- has made it very hard to stop the SS crisis-mongers from repeatedly going back on the offensive.

Will we allow Russert's successor, basking in cries of 'do it just like Tim did', go after Social Security just like he did? I'm betting 'yes' based on the completely adulatory and obsequious reaction to Russert's death. A warm welcome to Brian Williams, the next great and all powerful anti-Social-Security crisis-monger.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:20:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tim Russert (1.00 / 1)

Nothing like a little troll pathology to make my day.


by mady on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:54:57 PM EST

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (none / 0)

There are 2 issues with this diary.  The first is that it is inappropriate to rip Mr. Russert on the time of his passing.  This is a Republican tactic that does not belong on a site such as this.

Secondly, you are wrong that Social Security is solvent to 2042 or whatever because you are assuming that there really is a trust fund.  There is not.  There is merely a bunch of paper (i.e. debt) that is owed by the US government to the Social Security trust fund.  Come 2018 or 2019 that debt will need to be paid back as the money from the trust will be needed to pay benefits.  At that point in time the government will either have to borrow money from some other source or will have to raise taxes if it will not cut benefits.

There IS a crisis in Social Security but it is not a crisis in the (theoretical) funds available/not available to pay benefits as you suggest but it will come in 2018/9 when the government has to explain to the public that the money in the trust has actually already been spent.

In short, Russert is right and you are wrong both factually and morally.


by swh269 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 07:47:35 PM EST

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (2.00 / 1)

Your thinking about the 'trust fund' is comically wrong (i.e., another disinformation campaign success story) according to Dean Baker, Paul Krugman, and Mark Weisbrot. Holding govt bonds is a profoundly secure investment, and that's what the 'trust fund' is. There needs to be additional revenue generated for the shortfall coming in 2042 or probably later than that, depending on how the economy does.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:38:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (none / 0)

There is a difference between citizens holding government bonds and the government holding them.

It is like loaning yourself money to buy a car - how does that work?


by swh269 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 08:50:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Russert vs Social Security (none / 0)

Yes, the government borrows money from Social Security to fund everyday operations, to be paid back with interest. I think the US govt, which has never defaulted on a bond obligation and can if it needs to print money if it ever gets into a pinch for paying back loans, is an extremely +++ good credit risk. Do you seriously expect the Social Security trustees not to put our money in some sort of 'bank', or do you think they should just put our money under the mattress and forego even the most conservative secure investing?

Anyway, one branch of the govt is borrowing money from the Social Security trust fund, and there's nothing unworkable or 'weird' about that. The trust fund should of course be 'loaned out' (i.e., invested) in various very safe investments, and that's what it is doing.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 10:53:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

bad timing (none / 0)

I agree with most of what you write, I disagree with doing this now.


Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog
by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:22:26 PM EST


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