How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War

by fairleft, Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 03:48:30 PM EST

The survivors of those killed in the U.S.'s war in Iraq since the 2003 invasion cannot simply blame Bush. Under the guise of "tough journalism" Russert and others disseminated lies and built the case for invasion even before Bush got to the White House.

How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War

December 19, 1999: With Al Gore as guest, Tim Russert says on Meet the Press: "One year ago Saddam Hussein threw out all the inspectors who could find his chemical or nuclear capability." Russert asks Gore what he's going to do about this.

Soon afterward: Sam Husseini leaves a message on Russert's answering machine, and speaks to two of his assistants, telling them the inspectors were withdrawn by the UN at the request of the United States.

January 2, 2000: With Madeleine Albright as guest, Tim Russert repeats the error on Meet the Press: "One year ago, the inspectors were told, 'Get out,' by Saddam Hussein." Russert asks Albright what she's going to do about this.

January 21, 2000: Sam Husseini writes a letter to Russert, again laying out the facts, and requests a correction.

January 22, 2000-March 19, 2003: Russert never corrects his error.

March 19, 2003-present: Hundreds of thousands of people die in Iraq War. Russert dies, not in Iraq War. Official Washington weeps copious tears for Russert and his Extraordinary Journalistic Standards.

Sam Husseini's honorable efforts remind me of Dean Baker's equally honorable efforts to correct Russert's misinformed crisis talk regarding Social Security. With the same ugly result:

Many people . . . have tried to call Russert's attention to the actual numbers on Social Security; he obviously does not care. He wants to cut the program and he will not let the evidence stand in his way. And, he has absolutely no hesitation about deliberately misrepresenting the facts on national television to advance his agenda.

Go to my previous diary for documentation of Tim Russert vs. Social Security. Tim Russert and the people of Iraq killed by America, may you rest in peace.




Tags: Iraq, Tim Russert, Saddam Hussein, WMD (all tags)

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This is useful how? (2.00 / 1)

What are you trying to achieve?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 03:53:16 PM EST

Re: This is useful how? (1.83 / 6)

He is giving perspective. I personally would feel it is in bad taste under normal circumstances. But what I have seen in recent days is overkill on how great Russert was as a journalist. His performance speaks otherwise. He was great at projecting gravitas and had even me fooled when I would casually follow politics.

I am not saying he is culpable of outright fraud. But as I mentioned in another diary, I do think subconsciously, he did not want to rock the boat. He wanted to be liked by the cool kids.


by Pravin on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 03:57:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Call a fraud a fraud (1.50 / 6)

Russert knew the well-known fact that the U.S. withdrew its UN inspectors on its own and forced the rest to leave because it was about to bomb the heck out of Iraq. But just to be absolutely sure, we know he had numerous people inform him of the facts immediately after he stated them wrongly, twice, as part of the corporate media's WMD Saddam demonization project.

By never correcting falsehoods stated to millions of his viewers, Russert was putting a fraud over on the American people. And Russert's uncorrected misstatement was part of a larger fraud, the WMD lie, that has had tragic consequences for the people of Iraq and America.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:10:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Call a fraud a fraud (1.40 / 5)

You are a sick person,  understand that you are trying to smear a dead man's legacy all for your revenge.

Let me guess, were you the national embarrassment who pledged to kill Russert on TM's blog?

You love to place blame for her loss, how pathetic you choose the dead to convey it.

Can't wait to see you banned,


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Call a fraud a fraud (1.20 / 5)

Why TR me with no rebuttal.

You are the weakest of weak, you can only trash someone when they are dead.

Special place in hell for people like you.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:18:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

His 'great journalist' legacy must be destroyed (1.75 / 4)

if we are ever to have an even halfway decent journalism in our country again. The extreme adulation expressed for 'Russert the journalist' in recent days foreshadows a 'nightmare' future journalism of race-to-the-bottom toadying to the rich and powerful (example: Russert's boss, Jack Welch).

I have nothing at all against adulation for Russert the dad, Russert the buddy, and so on. But don't pretend he was anything but one of the worst representatives of the deep decline of American journalism over the last 30 years.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: His 'great journalist' legacy must be destroye (1.66 / 3)


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:25:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: His 'great journalist' legacy must be d (none / 0)

I dont think he was even close to the worst. A lot of DC journalist types were bad. Even the Brokaws and Koppels have flaws. But then again, you probably dont disagree on that.

I think Russert's flaw is highlighted here because of the important show he helmed. If she was just doing some 6pm MSNBC talk show, he would not be a target of ire.


by Pravin on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:37:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: His 'great journalist' legacy must be d (1.50 / 2)

I didn't say he was the worst, just one of the worst. Really, there are so many practicioners of toadying-to-power journalism now, maybe he was just typical of normal corporate media 'journalism' now. But his influence and power were enormous (as we can see with the mass adulation outbreak), his bad example overwhelmingly destructive of the idea of real journalism.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:03:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Call a fraud a fraud (2.00 / 3)

Read carefully, you are the one who will be banned if you continue to attack other MYDD readers unprovoked. Someone giving their opinion on Russert does not qualify as an example of someone personally provoking you.

If you can't handle a difference of opinion, go sit in a corner. If someone expresses glee at Russert's death, then go ahead and engage in whatever posts you seem to enjoy writing.

I know I personally expressed that it was an untimely death when it happened.


by Pravin on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:27:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Call a fraud a fraud (1.40 / 5)

Go for it,  write Jerome a letter saying how you are still attacking Tim for what ever delussion you have.

You, the diarist, lakersfan, etc are attacking a dead man of inter-party partisanship.

How pathetic,  you wouldn't attack Bill O Reilly 2 days after he died now would you?

Please report me, I beg you.
Jerome might be biased, but he is not an animal.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:35:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Call a fraud a fraud (1.66 / 3)

I did not say he shilled for the Republicans. Once again, you are spouting a lot of shit without reading my comments.  I did say he seemed to succumb to the mindset where no one wanted to alienate the DC powerful set. It just happens that Cheney was one of those people in power and that he felt that Russert could be manipulated easily because they felt that Russert was not up to the task of challenging them. Whether their assessment of Tim was flawed can be debatd. But it is a fact that the Cheneys felt tha way about Tim.


by Pravin on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:40:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, Kreskin (2.00 / 2)

I don't know about you, but I don't know what goes on in other people's minds.  Russert's strength was that he often took the position of the everyman, of the common belief in his interviews.  

I often disagreed with choices Russert made (I don't like hypothetical questions put to presidential candidates; it's too easy for them to be taken out of context), but to suggest that he did not fill an important role as Meet the Press host and moderator, or that his negative effect was greater than the positive effect of trying to keep politicians honest, is complete and utter bullshit.

We went to war because Bush and his cabal of evil cohorts lied their way into taking us to war.  Social Security is in a crisis because Bush and his cabal of evil cohorts have been plundering it like mad to give corporate welfare to their rich friends.

Tim Russert didn't do these things.  Tim Russert was a journalist.  Tim Russert was a human being that was sometimes fallable, just like you or me.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:35:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, he was a propagandist (1.66 / 3)

masquerading as a journalist. My evidence is solid and on-the-record: numerous people wrote him and contacted him in every possible way, correcting his blatant errors. On two hugely important matters, Iraq and Social Security. And he did not correct the misstatements, instead he repeated them. Propagandists do that, journalists do not.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:39:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, he was a propagandist (none / 0)

I dont think it was propaganda on his behalf. I think others like Cheney used him to unwittingly spread their propaganda and his desire not to be shunned as a lefty radical probably made him less diligent in taking the cheney types to task. He may know what was going on at some level, but the mind can do imprssive things when it comes to denial.  


by Pravin on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:42:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, he was a propagandist (1.50 / 2)

On Social Security, I think he was doing what his master Jack Welch ordered, damn the fact. As for Iraq, I believe you may be right, that he was simply duped and perhaps too lazy to do the minimal research to confirm that the UN voluntarily left Iraq and was not thrown out. Even in the second possibility, though, his laziness made him a propagandist for obviously false information that scared popular opinion about Saddam Hussein and Iraq.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:51:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, he was a propagandist (2.00 / 2)

Actually, given Jack Welch's devotion to the bottom line, and his stance that NBC shore it up, and given that General Electric is one of the companies that profit hugely during a war, Russert's Iraq failings were probably Welch directed--and something that should be called out.

http://www.makethemaccountable.com/cover up/Part_04.htm

Here's an analysis of the GE businesses that have profitted hugely from the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.  Do any of you doubt that Welch wasn't happy about Bush's desire to have another war?  And wasn't it in his stated interests for his news network to help a war along?

http://www.publicintegrity.org/WOW/bio.a spx?act=pro&ddlC=23


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, he was a propagandist (none / 0)

Yup, absolutely! Guess I was duped by that friendly good ol' boy smile again.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:58:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your hindsight is great (2.00 / 2)

At the time, the average person didn't know that the administration was as deceitful as it was.  Whose word should he take, that of the President's people, or assorted folks who write in to him?

We have a drastically different view of those events now than we did then.  In hindsight, he was wrong.  That doesn't make him a propagandist, nor does it make your smears worth the internet they're written on.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He was contacted immediately on both matters (2.00 / 0)

by many knowledgeable experts, very politely and professionally, telling him what the facts were and asking him to correct his misstatements. He refused.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your hindsight is great (2.00 / 1)

But Russert wasn't the "average person". He's a Washington insider, a powerful media figure, and the chief of the NBC Washington bureau. He had the ability, the resources, and the responsibility to dig deeper and get to the truth, but he chose not to. The average person (and even the average Congressperson) was stuck with no choice but to believe what the media kept repeating.

And it's not all hindsight. There were reporters and others who had 20/20 insight and never believed the lies. Those people weren't stupid or crazy, they were just brave and smart -- qualities that are far too rare in our media.


by LakersFan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:41:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Kreskin (none / 0)

We went to war because Bush and his  lied their way into taking us to war.
That is absolutely correct, and I have no interest in dancing on anyone's grave.  The (often over-the-top) criticsm of this particular journalist was that the lies of Bush and his cabal of evil cohorts could not have and would not have stirred the misguided support of the people without those lies being unquestioningly repeated by "journalists".  In that regard, many prominent media figures were complicit in the Iraq debacle.

Though the timing is less than respectful, I agree with the diarist that an unquestioned celebration of Mr. Russert as a paragon of journalistic integrity is worthy of more examination and objectivity than he sometimes gave the administration's talking points.  That could, however, wait a few days.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:32:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Kreskin (1.80 / 5)

But please understand there is a lot of dancing on graves going on other sites.

TM kicked off anyone doing it, so now they come here.

Its all about political revenge,  check Fairlefts history and see how much he posts on Iraq war accountability.

Try and see through this, why would anyone pick today to smear him?


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:35:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The timing was everything (2.00 / 3)

This could've been presented a month ago or a month from now; doing it now is a direct attack on the man and the memory of the man.

At the very least, it's supremely bad taste.  At the worst, it's abominable smear tactics.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, I don't think it can, (none / 0)

the concrete for his official if not sacrosanct legacy has been poured and is settling. And various pundits and journalists who I respect agree with me. Matthew Rothschild at the Progressive published an excellent piece critical of Russert last Friday, for example:

http://www.progressive.org/mag_wx0601408


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:40:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Call a fraud a fraud (2.00 / 1)

The funeral hasn't even been held yet and here you are spouting off about the war. For what? Let the man rest in peace. There is another time for criticism. I thought Russert was good at what he did, even though I disagreed with some of his analysis and statements. Can we have a little class please.


by NJDEM1 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:24:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's disingenuous perspective (1.75 / 4)

The entire media screwed the pooch on the Iraq war buildup; it wasn't just Russert.

Bush was planning on invading Iraq since the day he took office; we know this from Bob Woodward's interviews from several years ago.

No, this is a smear piece from a known Clinton hyperpartisan who defended Eliot Spitzer's misuse of government resources to utilize the services of prostitutes (he was a Clinton superdelegate, don'tcha know?).  And... attacking Iron Man, really?

Tim made fairleft's list for actually holding Clinton's feet to the fire like he does to everyone else (he spent the first 15 minutes of his Obama interview on Wright, before you get off on that tangent).  Now he's being posthumously smeared because he died before fairleft could find a good time to present his/her/its character assassination research on the topic.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:24:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, it's my honest perspective, (2.00 / 1)

and I'm much better at mindreading my perspective than you are.

And I didn't defend Spitzer's misuse yada yada.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:34:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, it's my honest perspective, (1.40 / 5)

so you will do anything to attack Obama's candidacy.

Stoop as low as to attack a dead man.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:36:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, it's my honest perspective, (2.00 / 2)

Obama is running to replace Russert at NBC?

Not everything is about Obama or Clinton.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:27:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Right (1.75 / 4)

I hope Spitzer does wait out the b.s. storm, it would be good for the democratic system. The people of New York elected him governor not very long ago. That should count for a lot, and definitely a lot more than his private indiscretions. Yes, his hypocrisy and ego aren't pretty but name me a politician without a big ego and who isn't a hypocrite? Governors (and Presidents) should be booted for high crimes, not for hypocrisy and victimless 'misdemeanors'.

I'm sorry, you were just trying to play it down as unimportant, not defending him.

My bad.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

not overreacting to 'private indiscretions' (1.00 / 1)

doesn't equal defending 'misuse of govt funds'. Look it up: which was your trollish charge?


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:43:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The misuse of the government... (2.00 / 1)

...was inherent in the case against Spitzer.  

You playing it down in any capacity was essentially trying to distract from the real issue of the corruption of someone who was supposedly a fighter of corruption.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:50:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, yeah, 'inherent in the charge' yada yada (1.00 / 2)

I forgot to add to my previous response:

B U S T E D ! !


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:52:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not overreacting to 'private indiscretions' (2.00 / 3)

Why did you TR dracomicron's statement?

The poster quoted you and corrected their own misinterpretation... and you TR'd...?


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rating abuse is rampant in this diary (none / 0)

It's not even worth fighting over, Jen.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rating abuse is rampant in this diary (2.00 / 3)

yeah...  I know...  but some battles are worth fighting.. even if they are losing ones...

Besides... I would like to be well on the record as calling out the TR abuse in this diary in case I decide to report to an admin.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:04:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fair enough. (2.00 / 1)

I'd be lying if I said that I didn't appreciate it. :)


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:10:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not overreacting to 'private indiscretions' (none / 0)

I agree.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:02:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is useful how? (none / 0)

I doubt the way to correct overkill is to attack the subject of the overkill.  Make sense?  It's classless, pure and simple.


by niksder on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:12:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The truth hurts (1.66 / 3)

He's trying to point out what so many would like to ignore. Sorry, but Russert did not suddenly become a hero.

Russert & Co. played cheerleader for the Bush administration, abdicating all responsibility as journalists and ignoring the important role that the press is supposed to play in a democracy. While people like to blame Democratic Senators who voted for AUMF for the military deaths in Iraq, it's the Tim Russert's of the world that put our lawmakers in this position to begin with. By not reporting accurately or objectively, they are responsible for allowing Bush to lie us into a war.


by LakersFan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The truth hurts (1.42 / 7)

Wow, so big of you.

Making fun of dead people,  wow you have your finger on the pulse of America.

Too bad your life will never come close to the service Tim did for Democrats and the media.

No you sit there with your Karl Rove poster and box of kleenex watching snuff films and pro-life propaganda videos.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:17:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We all screwed up (2.00 / 3)

The American society, as a collective unit, failed entiredly in the first years of the new millenium; if we dwell on the secondary actors without acknowledging the source, the true corruption will never be excised because we will be prosecuting the cases of every single person whose cognitive dissonance allowed evil people to hijack our democracy.

Russert was a good man; he was nothing more or less than a man.  He did what he thought was right.  We can criticize him, sure, but be respectful about it.  He doesn't deserve fairleft saddling him with the worst atrocity that the United States has committed in half a century or more.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Media screwed up (2.00 / 1)

"We" did not screw up. I knew those people were lying, but I didn't have the public airways to tell people the truth. Russert had the airways, and the powerful MTP gig, and chose to perpetuate the lies. The media screwed up. He screwed up. I'm sorry he died so young, but that doesn't excuse the fact that as a prominent media figure, it was his responsibility to provide accurate information instead of being a cheerleader for the Bush administration.


by LakersFan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:56:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We all screwed up (2.00 / 1)

The title of the diary is "planted the seeds." The metaphor implies that those seeds did not have to grow and blossom into war. And many were responsible for planting those seeds for war, not only Russert.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:04:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

youtube bomb in Tim's memory. (1.80 / 5)


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for that (2.00 / 2)

I hadn't seen Chuck Todd's reaction yet.  I appreciate it... at least something good came out of this awful diary.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:10:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for that (2.00 / 2)

It was a touching moment, as he knew he the least but knew him at the defining year of his career.

I never knew how involved Tim was until the last 2 months.  He really molded alot of people out there.

And as I enjoy partisan media, I have to give Tim credit as I liked his show.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:17:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War (1.75 / 4)

I hope you enjoy rotting in hell.


by Cheebs on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 03:57:07 PM EST

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For (2.00 / 2)

This "analysis" is very distasteful and certainly has plenty of holes in it.


by rfahey22 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:00:07 PM EST

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For (2.00 / 1)

While I'm waiting for you to say what those holes are, we'll put the holes score at zero (0).


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:03:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For (2.00 / 2)

Oh, I don't know.  How about the complete lack of any evidence that Tim Russert's statements actually led to war.  Seems to be a gaping omission from where I'm sitting, since you seem to believe there's a causal relationship.


by rfahey22 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:06:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For (1.50 / 2)

Lots of people can 'seem to believe' things, but do they 'believe' them?

We'll have to look at what is actually written, and . . . no what is written does not show that I believe there is a causal relationship between Russert's lie and the invasion of Iraq. And neither do either of my links. But his lie 'planted the seeds for the invasion,' as the diary headline states. That was a terrible thing to do.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:13:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For (2.00 / 2)

What does "planted the seeds" mean?  To me, that means a causal relationship, but if I misunderstood, so be it.


by rfahey22 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:20:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For (1.66 / 3)


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:21:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For (2.00 / 1)

Another dodge.  Go Away.


by niksder on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:17:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War (2.00 / 4)

the MSM did fail in a big way with the lead-up to the Iraq War.

Tim Russert, bless his soul, was one of them


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:01:14 PM EST

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War (2.00 / 2)

Holy shit, you mean Tim Russert wasn't perfect? My paradigm has been shattered. I'm so glad this was pointed out to me before he was buried.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:14:33 PM EST

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War (2.00 / 4)

boooo--- not the time or the place.


by alyssa chaos on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:17:55 PM EST

Fairleft, (2.00 / 5)

I often appreciate your diaries, but I dislike your timing on this. While you may have some valid points, nothing will be accomplished by posting this now. And this struck me as particularly insensitive, because it came across as a jab at Russert:

Tim Russert and the people of Iraq killed by America, may you rest in peace.

Again, terrible timing in general.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:23:48 PM EST

Re: Fairleft, (2.00 / 1)

I agree the tone of the diary is a tad more extreme than I am personally comfortable with considering the timing. By all accounts, the guy was a very friendly man.  But I think diaries like this will only prop up as a visceral reaction to a little over the top praising of Russert in recent days. I expected a lot of warm responses because Russert seems to be a beloved person in the journalistic community and very personable. But the way they frame his record , it makes people who resented his show want to correct it.


by Pravin on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:32:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The war for Russert's 'great journalist' legacy (1.66 / 3)

has been waged since Friday. Full guns ablazing all over the corporate media. How long is the important truth supposed to wait, that he represented the media's profound decline and rightward turn over the last 30 years?


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:57:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fairleft, (2.00 / 1)

The diary is about the the Iraq war (seed planting) and Russert, and I believed every word and meant every word of the sentence.

The great difficulty with opposing the oncoming war was the acceptance of the 'ground rules' that 'of course' Saddam was a very dangerous guy. Only then were 'responsible' opponents allowed to insert their 'but we shouldn't' or whatever. That setting of the 'acceptable space' for responsible opposition crippled the mainstream Democrats' efforts to stop Bush.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:21:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fairleft, (1.75 / 4)

hey, before you crawl back to hillaryis44 please answer this one question:

Keep pretending you care about Iraq, why are there no other journalists you want to criticize?
Surely Tim was not singlehandedly responsible for this war.

Good luck not answering it!


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:24:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fairleft, (2.00 / 1)

The diary links to two journalists who criticize Russert. Also, read Matthew Rothschild's editorial from last Friday:

http://www.progressive.org/mag_wx0601408

There have been numerous articles in Media Matters (the first presents Russert's long record of Iraq warmonger toadying):

http://mediamatters.org/items/2007110100 01?f=s_search

http://mediamatters.org/items/2008022900 20

http://mediamatters.org/columns/20080507 0004


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:08:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War (2.00 / 2)

Tim Russert is dead, how about we let him rest in peace.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:25:06 PM EST

In his own words (1.75 / 4)


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:25:12 PM EST

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War (2.00 / 3)

Damn, at least wait til the body cools.


by Lokichilde on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:31:04 PM EST

How many days should we wait? (1.71 / 7)

What is it with you people - you react with such hostility to unpleasant, yet truthful, facts. Don't you want to be informed? Or is your wish to be forever sheltered?

Hermetically sealed from all the harsh elements of real life, chauffered by your mommies around your suburbian bubble upbringings.

So we will repeat the disaster that was invading Iraq because death is icky? The irony.


by catfish2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How many days should we wait? (2.00 / 3)

Yeah, cuz waiting a week or so would totally get us to invade Iraq again.

Dude, it's about being respectful of a decent man.  The Washington media doesn't have very many of them.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:56:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Grow up. (1.60 / 5)

Step away from the screens of your world. Russert is just a man. He is not your friend or your enemy. He was your friend in the box. He was not your daddy.

Meet a vet permanently injured from this unjust war.
How on earth did we so carelessly invade that country and botch the post-invasion operation for so long?


by catfish2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:59:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grow up. (1.75 / 4)

Hey, asshole I've got friends and kin that are either there now or have been there recently.  I get how important this is.

He ain't my daddy.  My daddy raised me to be more respectful of the recently departed, unless they were truly low and ugly figures.

Jebus.  If you had such a fucking problem with Russert, why not say something before he died.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:01:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Respect the truth. (2.00 / 4)

To disrespect the truth is to disrespect humankind.

And plenty was said before he died.


by catfish2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grow up. (2.00 / 1)

How on earth did we so carelessly invade that country and botch the post-invasion operation for so long?

Thanks for the reminder, Catfish!


by spunkmeyer on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:43:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grow up. (none / 0)

"How on earth did we so carelessly invade that country and botch the post-invasion operation for so long?"

Because 50%+1 of the electorate voted for Bush, twice.


by Roberta on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:17:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not in 2000. (1.00 / 0)

Were you living abroad or in High School at that time?


by catfish2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 11:10:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Tim (2.00 / 2)

Did Russert fall short from time to time?  Yes, yes he did.  And sometimes it cost us.

Did Russert fall short less often than his colleagues?  You bet your ass.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:45:58 PM EST

Re: How Tim (1.66 / 3)

And seem the problem is with people like Fairleft is that is not good enough for them.

Their unwanted demoigogory of HRC has led them to try and slander and smear anyone they considered a threat.

I still never saw Fairleft decry the activities on NoQuarter and Hillaryis44 were they celebrated Tim's death (all other blogs did not tolerate it at all)

This also proves Fairleft is a coward because he is unwilling to go after anyone else,  he picks on Tim because for this immoral mcblogger, he's too much of a coward.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Doubt fairleft is a McBlogger (2.00 / 1)

fairleft has been with Clinton since last year... it seems unlikely that he/she/it is with McCain, and if so, then it's a recent transition.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:58:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Doubt fairleft is a McBlogger (1.66 / 3)

You are right, and that crossed my mind, but to me only Republicans would stoop this low.

It is pathetic and disgusting.

I thought these over the top acts were done.

There were people dancing on Tim's grave on the extremist sites.

Fairleft was one of those dancers.

I wonder what the person who publicly called for his murder is thinking today:

look at the 2:15 mark....


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:14:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Doubt fairleft is a McBlogger (2.00 / 2)

Tim was (arguably) a journalist.  While you can argue taste issues about bringing this up now, your logic that somehow calling out Tim's shortcomings is tantamount to being a Republican is an eye poppingly long jump.

The diarist no where mentioned Clinton in this diary.  And frankly, if he had, he would have to mention Clinton's part in the run up to the war.

Not everything is about Obama and Clinton.

But in the GE, what is thought of as good journalism will matter to Obama.  Don't get so stuck on the primaries' arguments that you miss the diarist's important point.  Jack Welch may not be your friend in Oct & Nov, and if so, neither will Tweety be your friend, nor whomever replaces Russert.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Generation Soft will not like hearing this (1.50 / 4)

but it is the truth.

Generation Soft - yes death can be icky. But it is a part of life. And much as it hurts your brains, sometimes good men with good intentions innocently can be complicit in bad things happening.

It is perfect timing to bring this up now. You complainers were not Russert's personal friends. The media, especially people like Russert, carried enormous influence over public opinion. Which is why his perpetuating lies about inspectors was even MORE damaging than Fox News.


by catfish2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:48:20 PM EST

Re: Generation Soft will not like hearing this (1.75 / 4)

Not suprised, another member of Hillaryis44 where Tim's death was celebrated.

Let me guess, they never booted the person who said it was God's will.

good taste.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:52:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Generation Soft will not like hearing this (2.00 / 1)

do you know for a fact that catfish2 & fairleft blog on Hillaryis44?

Or do you just throw that out there to demean them?  

I really don't care what goes on those hate-sites.  They are not in the same league as mydd nor will they ever be


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:53:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Generation Soft will not like hearing this (1.75 / 4)

They are repeating talking points from there.

You tell me when it's right to attack someone because you consider them a political enemy.

Lets say Tim retired in 2006,  Fairleft would not be making this statement.

So he is attacking Tim postmortem(literally) just to exact his revenge.

If fairleft is not from said "hatesites" that is where he needs to march to.

Don't think I will ever forget his transgression against humanity.

I still havent heard address the hate sites, or his associations I have accused him of, just keeps repeating the same shit.

sad you are falling for it.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:28:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Generation Soft will not like hearing this (2.00 / 1)

I don't know the site, never posted there.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:28:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Generation Soft will not like hearing this (2.00 / 1)

generation soft? ---------hmmm.


by alyssa chaos on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War??? (1.83 / 6)


Grumpy, reluctant, sore-losing, unhappy, irritable Hillary supporter for Barack Obama 2008
by DemAC on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:53:10 PM EST

Re: Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War??? (1.80 / 5)


Grumpy, reluctant, sore-losing, unhappy, irritable Hillary supporter for Barack Obama 2008
by DemAC on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can't wait (1.75 / 4)

I can't wait for your next diaries:

"Tim Russert: Left the Seat Down"
"Tim Russert: Flatulent Prick?"
"Tim Russert: Creator of the SARS"
"How Tim Russert Stole Fitzmas"


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:03:16 PM EST

Re: I can't wait (2.00 / 1)

now you are getting carried away.


by alyssa chaos on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:08:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So those proposed diaries (1.50 / 2)

are equivalent in your mind to this one, on planting the seeds for the Iraq war which has killed millions, and the previous one on his many years of disinforming on and crisis-mongering Social Security?


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:13:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So those proposed diaries (1.66 / 3)

If it makes you feel like you won something by my saying it, then yes, yes I do.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:14:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War (1.66 / 3)

OK!  We get it!  Russert was hard on Clinton.  Boo hoo. The primary is over.  Do you and all your friends over at Hillaryis44 have to keep berating the guy after his death?

Move on...


by rf7777 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:14:50 PM EST

How DARE me!! (1.66 / 3)

L-o-v-e-d this response over at pff:

how dare you! (4.33 / 3)

raise such an unflattering fact about a television journalist who has just died.

grow. the fuck. up.

couldn't you at least wait till Russert's myth is firmly established common knowledge?

http://www.politicalfleshfeast.com/showD iary.do?diaryId=3738


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:17:02 PM EST

Re: How DARE me!! (2.00 / 4)

Okay, okay, we get it....  you seem to like yourself some you.

I have to agree with Sricki, as usual... The timing of this is in poor taste.

Was Russert a saint...?  No.  Is he being cannonized right now...?  Yes.  Is that typical after a tragic death...?  Yes.  Princess Diana had her foibles as well, but you id not hear about them after she died.  Especially not RIGHT after she died.  Was Russert involved in the run-up to war...?  Yes.  Name for me three mainstream journalists who were not.  I have Bill Moyers and strike out from there.

Let the man rest in peace.  He (sadly) will not bother you ever again.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:41:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Our corporate media has been a HUGE problem, (2.00 / 1)

obviously in the run-up to the Iraq war. Obviously as well, in the case of Russert, with the Social Security crisis-mongering. Obviously as well with the destruction of Clinton in 1998-1999 and Gore in 2000, which Russert played an important role in.

We just have to resist the massive corporate media effort to enshrine Russert as a great journalist, and they aren't waiting, they're doing that doing right now. We can't wait until it's too late to start putting the devastating facts out there.  

Sam Husseini and Jonathan Schwartz (linked in the diary), and Matthew Rothschild agree with me on this matter, and I greatly respect all three of them. Here's a link to Rothschild's piece from The Progressive:

http://www.progressive.org/mag_wx0601408


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:52:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our corporate media has been a HUGE problem, (2.00 / 2)

As a MTP fan... never missed an episode... and as someone who gets my news from many different sources, I will not be joining you in that effort.

I will miss Russert... my Sunday mornings will not be the same.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:01:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My condolences (none / 0)


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:31:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What harm does it do? (2.00 / 2)

The outpouring of positive emotion on behalf of Russert and his family does nothing to hurt you or, in fact, journalism.  

If anything, he inspired journalists to be better, to learn from his mistakes.

Russert was a great journalist; he brought Meet the Press to impressive prominence during his tenure.  He interviewed hundreds of important people.  If he made mistakes, they were honest ones.  

I don't care who agrees with you: the diary is tactless and serves no good purpose.  I'm sorry Tim was critical of your candidate.  I ask you to respectfully let it go.  The man is dead.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What harm does it do? (2.00 / 1)

He was a terrible journalist. I've barely scratched the surface with my two diaries. Read Matthew Rothschild's editorial from last Friday (didn't wait long!):

http://www.progressive.org/mag_wx0601408

Read numerous articles in Media Matters (the first presents his long record of Iraq warmonger toadying):

http://mediamatters.org/items/2007110100 01?f=s_search

http://mediamatters.org/items/2008022900 20

http://mediamatters.org/columns/20080507 0004


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:16:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah. (2.00 / 1)

I'll pass, thanks.

Somehow I doubt that giving advertising revenue to sites you frequent will be worth my time or effort.

I have no illusions about the man.  You seem to, though.

You DO realize, and I say this not out of any desire to attack her, that Hillary Clinton was far more complicit in the Iraq war than Tim Russert?  She was the one who actually got to vote on it, and she voted for it.  She voted for a number of things in good faith that George W. Bush perverted to evil causes.

Does that make her a terrible Senator?  If she died (god forbid), would you go on a spree of denegrating her accomplishments and trying to make sure that people remembered her for her faults, not the great deeds she achieved?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:20:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ostrich, meet sand (2.00 / 1)

I'm just trying to fight the toadying-to-power pseudo-journalism phenomenon, and that necessitates attacking Russert's legacy-in-the-making as a great journalist. Jack Welch and major defense contractor GE own NBC, and it seemed to me and many others more expert than me that Russert was well aware of that and was a team player for his corporation. That's the new journalism, as you'd find out if you read Media Matters.

If the media (as if) were trying to construct a 'Hillary Clinton was a great leader' monument upon her death, that would need to be corrected. She was part of the problem in the run up to the Iraq war, as were so many others. And she and Obama have been a problem with continuing to fund the occupation.

But the corporatized media is an ongoing problem, and deifying one of its worst practicioners seems just makes the problem worse. In other words, imperfect politicians come and go, corporate-skewing of the media is apparently forever.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:39:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please, go over to HillaryIs44, (1.75 / 4)

where smearing the newly deceased is considered classy.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:21:37 PM EST

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War (1.80 / 5)

What the hell is going on here?

A famous journalist dies: and the enlightened blogosphere is filled with diaries like this?

70 per cent of Americans were in favor of the Iraq war by the time it started. Are you going to mention this every time 7 out of 10 americans die?

This is neither fair nor left. The guy was a journalist for godsake. Unless you're some kind of crypto calvinist who believes only the elect who never supported the war will go to heaven, stop abusing a political cause by pinning on the still warm bodies of the dead. It's pathetic. And my suspicion is that is just more trouble-making attention-seeking for someone who is missing the bile of the primary wars, and is looking to get some sadistic stimulation by other means.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 05:50:51 PM EST

Re: How Tim Russert Planted The Seeds For Iraq War (2.00 / 2)

Again, supposedly fairleft... his excellent observation deserved a TR why exactly?

you are clearly abusing your ratings ability.  May you be stripped of them soon.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This: (none / 0)

"just more trouble-making attention-seeking for someone who is missing the bile of the primary wars, and is looking to get some sadistic stimulation by other means."


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:05:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This: (none / 0)

Come on. I'm just making a political observation, just as you have with such timely acumen about Russert.

Let's be clear. You've troll rated most the anti comments on this thread. Clear indication of a weak and spurious argument, and if you think that's ad hominem, you've got a whole latin lesson coming to you.

Oh. But I forgot. It's Sunday. And you've got no class


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:10:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This: (none / 0)

I 'trollrate' (mark with a 1) personal attacks.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:18:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]